An Internet Conversation

From Comments on a YouTube Video

Below is a conversation that appeared underneath a YouTube video.  My comments here are representative of others I often make to people I don’t know.  The comments are unedited.

Patti Beck:  On this day 9/11 please remember God loves America His Grace and Mercy lives and it follows us everyday. Have a great day!!

Me:  There is no real foundation for believing that God loves a political entity. We do, on the other hand, have ample evidence for believing that God loves each person, no matter what nation he or she is part of (or living in).

TogetherWeAreOne:   the LORD does many a great things. If the people in politics listened to God and let his Grace lead them, then maybe the world wouldn’t be in this state, but then again the LORD will use this world has an example of how he got his Glory! Amen.

Me:  Your heart seems like it’s in the right place.  I just don’t have the foggiest idea how anyone could expect God’s Kingdom to affect the Kingdoms of this world as such. His reign in this world is not in governments (with the theoretical exception of the theocracy of Israel, pre-Babylon), but rather, in individual human hearts.

TogetherWeAreOne:   God Loves all.  Jesus died to crush the ten commandments and right love on our hearts.  Our only command is to love one another that is what God intended for us to do all along.  This is how he changes your heart through love.  When you accept salvation through Jesus you open a door for Jesus to come and dwell within you.  You are lead by the Grace of God to repent from sin (change your mind towards sinful nature), and also Grace will make it so that sin no longer has dominion over you, meaning you now only sin because you make up your mind to sin.

Me:   That’s rather theoretical and goes down an entirely different path from the one I thought we were discussing.  My comment originally was hoping to show that God’s kingdom (rule, reign) is in a different realm from this world’s kingdoms and governments.  As far as I can tell from scripture and history, God is not in the business of redeeming governments and countries.  That’s what I was trying to say.  [I don’t disagree with your general ideas there — especially the notion that Jesus eclipses Jewish law — although my studies in NT Greek and NT exegesis would seek to deal with one biblical text at a time rather than attempting to amalgamate a bunch of them into a theology of salvation. (Was that Rev. 3/Laodicea with Romans and John the Immerser there?) 🙂 In other words, it’s a little dangerous from an interpretational standpoint to make up one’s own blended version of different texts. Also, your last assertion about sinning strikes me as presumptuous.  You may believe in total sanctification, which is a theological viewpoint I can’t support based on scripture or experience.  Again, I’d venture to say your heart is in the right place.]  All the best.

TogetherWeAreOne:   You seem like a very smart person and I would usually be all over an intellectual conversation like this, however I would be doing you a great disservice if I didn’t tell you that I am fairly new to the bible and studying the bible.  Apart from that I do believe that Gods Kingdom is beyond the gaze of our eyes.  I also believe God does move the nations.  Look how God toke the Jews out of the Land of egypt.  How he moved a whole nation.  Now I think what your asking is how does God’s advancement of His Kingdom have anything to do with the Nations here on earth and how is it relevant to God.  I believe that although people have free will God will use our circumstances to show his Glory.  He did this with the Jews and he has and will do it again with other Nations.  You have to look at the history of a particular Nation or Nations and look at how and what happened that caused them to get this far.  Then try and figure out where God fits in, because he does. Seriously tho Brain I don’t want to lead you wrong for I fear Sinning against God and his will.  My best advice would be to try and seek out someone with more experience in these matters.  Just a word of advice stay away from the conspirators God bless them and you Brian.  Take care, peace be with you, and Happy New Years!!!

Me:  Thanks again for your words and “confession” of being new. That may just lead you to see things—things that others who more immersed in denominational dogma can’t see! Your sincere search may lead you to and through the teachings of many.  I will boldly assert that those who try to apply the prophetic words of the Old Testament to our current geopolitical situation (twenty-first century or any century)—and there are many who do this—are off-target.

Many of them are equally sincere, but they have allowed an underlying political agenda for the U.S. to rise within them—hoping in this world for some odd reason, and believing that somehow God is the God of this country any more than He is God of the Philippines or Canada or Brazil. He was God of the Israelite nation in a special way, back before Christ, but that nation hasn’t existed as such since the last 3rd of the 1st century CE. The Jews were once THE chosen people, and they are that no longer. Now, the chosen people are believers in all God has offered, including Jesus Christ as Messiah/Christ.

The redemptive work that God does today is for the advancement of that Kingdom and the individuals who choose to take steps to be in that Kingdom, not for any earthly nation. I feel I can say two things with certainty: 1) that God is God, not me, so He can do whatever He wants; and 2) that there is no biblical or logical reason at this point in history to think God is going to raise up or tear down any political leader or country. He simply isn’t in that business.

Where does He fit in? In my life and yours, and in the community life of groups of believers who attempt to live in and for Him.

I’ll spare you any additional material, having written too much already.  Peace be to you and all your household, too!